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gorogues:
peppersandcats:
Those toys. Where does he get those wonderful toys?
Yes, this is a post about issue 67 of The Flash. Yes, it’s about James Jesse. Yes, I’m using a Joker quote as the title. There are a bunch of pages over at @gorogues review of the issue that are definitely worth checking out.
Setting aside everything else for a moment - for just a moment, I am having so many opinions - last I checked, the technology at James Jesse’s disposal covered
(The Barry Allen not recognizing him thing - look, James got thrown in jail, was not shy about referring to himself as the great James Jesse, and Barry Allen was both the Flash and a CSI. I kind of have to believe that Barry would know who he is. I don’t necessarily think it goes both ways - maybe James just arranged to have the Flash not remember him without knowing the Flash’s secret identity, maybe everyone doesn’t recognize or remember him - but Barry not recognizing him is really, really weird.)
And now that the above-mentioned moment’s over:
If I’m in a hurry, I usually summarize CW!James to people as “functionally the Joker”. It is a useful shorthand. It reflects his grandiosity, his threat level, his trickery, his venom, his willingness to murder people and think it’s funny, his showmanship, his TV tricks. (In the original series, he also brainwashed people and took over Central City!)
I am not happy to be able to see parallels between comics!James and CW!James. I never had a problem with how different they were - I chalked it up to “same name, different people” rather than bad adaptation - but I liked what I read of comics!Jesse and this… this…
I never got the impression he’d be gleeful about the Flash facing the greatest horror ever. The greatest challenge, the greatest trick, the greatest foe, sure… but the greatest horror?
From James Jesse?
Ehhhhhn.
If this was a James-centric story, I’d be hoping that what he wants from Commander Cold is a way to travel back in time so he can show his parents that he’s a success and they should be proud of him.
If he didn’t have this much technology at his disposal, I’d kind of wonder if he was after gadgets from the future, but Commander Cold doesn’t seem to have much new or different, and that’s not knowledge of the future, it’s more knowledge from the future.
I’m… vaguely going with the idea that he’s convinced he’s going to win in his current endeavour - whether that’s against the Flash specifically, against Wolfe specifically, against them both as he stuffs them in a jar and shakes it to make them fight - and he’s poking for knowledge of the future so he finds out how he wins and knows what to do, but that doesn’t quite feel like it’s gelled yet.
More general stuff:
James so help me if Axel is somewhere with a goofy anxious grin on his face I’mma have so many words.
Why did James let Detective Burns go? It’s not like her and Henry being in a relationship is easy to miss, and anyway they’re a cop and a quasi-cop. I’m wondering why he didn’t try threatening her to get Henry to cave, bluntly. Unless maybe he wanted her to be findable so that the Flash could go to her as a way to pry into things and set off the Stepford Smiler splash page?
I cannot for love blood or money tell if James knows Barry is the Flash and is deliberately not inflicting happiness so as to play with him (”I’m sure we’ll be seeing a lot of each other now”), or if he’s completely missed that his new girlfriend’s coworker back from vacation is the guy upon who he wishes to inflict the greatest horror (”I’m sure we’ll be seeing a lot of each other now”, but said sincerely).
Hff. I do want next issue, but I confess I’m not exactly cheerfully looking forward to it.
Spoilers for Flash #67!
Well said, and these are excellent points!
It’s hard to say whether Barry should know who James is, because continuity these days is so uncertain. We know James has been in prison or laying low for years, and I don’t know how long Barry’s been back in current continuity. I presume he did still die (or maybe just disappeared) in a Crisis at some point because we’ve seen glimpses of it, but his memories of pre-Crisis are clearly spotty at best. Before Crisis Barry did recognize James in disguise sometimes, but he probably doesn’t remember it now if he barely has any recollection of his marriage to Iris. And continuity has changed a bit, as we saw last issue with James’ and Axel’s histories (ie, Axel debuted during James’ long stint in prison and after James’ stint with the FBI and faked death in Countdown). This is why I grumble about continuity being shuffled around so much over the past few years; nobody really knows what’s still intact or what the characters might know unless it’s explicitly stated.
I do hope Axel’s okay, and that James hasn’t harmed or mind-controlled him in any way :\
Just for fun, here’s Barry recognizing James in disguise many years ago. It probably wasn’t one of his better ones.
Toys Unlimited, Ltd.
It’s more the combination of face and name that had me thinking that something’s weird.
Barry thinking “wow, this tall blond guy seems oddly familiar” - okay, totally happens. Nagging familiarity works.
Barry thinking “wow, this tall blond guy who was just introduced to me as James Jeisse seems oddly familiar, but I’m not reacting to his name at all, despite the fact that I battled the Trickster repeatedly (as per last issue) and that guy isn’t shy about calling himself James Jesse” - that seems weird. I guess it’s not quite like Barry not reacting to Kristen’s boyfriend being named Leonard Snart, but it’s hinky as hell.
(My brain will now go gently play with the idea that Wolfe did something to ensure everybody forgot Jesse, that that’s why Wolfe was so shocked when Mick remembered Jesse in the issue where Mick got the Sage Force, and that that’s why Jesse wants revenge on Wolfe. Which, like most of my headcanons, is a very non-Flash-centric one and this likely won’t be true. But it’s fun to theorize.)
gorogues:
peppersandcats:
Those toys. Where does he get those wonderful toys?
Yes, this is a post about issue 67 of The Flash. Yes, it’s about James Jesse. Yes, I’m using a Joker quote as the title. There are a bunch of pages over at @gorogues review of the issue that are definitely worth checking out.
Setting aside everything else for a moment - for just a moment, I am having so many opinions - last I checked, the technology at James Jesse’s disposal covered
- ridiculously advanced guns, up for sale
- para-angels, possibly hired
- something that yanked a kid out from under an entire collapsing building and dropped him safely (?) in Jesse’s lair
- cameras studded in a really unnerving number of places around the city
- mind control of an entire city
- the ability to keep Barry Allen from recognizing him (?) (but would he want this? maybe to draw out the game right now? but surely not in general)
(The Barry Allen not recognizing him thing - look, James got thrown in jail, was not shy about referring to himself as the great James Jesse, and Barry Allen was both the Flash and a CSI. I kind of have to believe that Barry would know who he is. I don’t necessarily think it goes both ways - maybe James just arranged to have the Flash not remember him without knowing the Flash’s secret identity, maybe everyone doesn’t recognize or remember him - but Barry not recognizing him is really, really weird.)
And now that the above-mentioned moment’s over:
If I’m in a hurry, I usually summarize CW!James to people as “functionally the Joker”. It is a useful shorthand. It reflects his grandiosity, his threat level, his trickery, his venom, his willingness to murder people and think it’s funny, his showmanship, his TV tricks. (In the original series, he also brainwashed people and took over Central City!)
I am not happy to be able to see parallels between comics!James and CW!James. I never had a problem with how different they were - I chalked it up to “same name, different people” rather than bad adaptation - but I liked what I read of comics!Jesse and this… this…
I never got the impression he’d be gleeful about the Flash facing the greatest horror ever. The greatest challenge, the greatest trick, the greatest foe, sure… but the greatest horror?
From James Jesse?
Ehhhhhn.
If this was a James-centric story, I’d be hoping that what he wants from Commander Cold is a way to travel back in time so he can show his parents that he’s a success and they should be proud of him.
If he didn’t have this much technology at his disposal, I’d kind of wonder if he was after gadgets from the future, but Commander Cold doesn’t seem to have much new or different, and that’s not knowledge of the future, it’s more knowledge from the future.
I’m… vaguely going with the idea that he’s convinced he’s going to win in his current endeavour - whether that’s against the Flash specifically, against Wolfe specifically, against them both as he stuffs them in a jar and shakes it to make them fight - and he’s poking for knowledge of the future so he finds out how he wins and knows what to do, but that doesn’t quite feel like it’s gelled yet.
More general stuff:
James so help me if Axel is somewhere with a goofy anxious grin on his face I’mma have so many words.
Why did James let Detective Burns go? It’s not like her and Henry being in a relationship is easy to miss, and anyway they’re a cop and a quasi-cop. I’m wondering why he didn’t try threatening her to get Henry to cave, bluntly. Unless maybe he wanted her to be findable so that the Flash could go to her as a way to pry into things and set off the Stepford Smiler splash page?
I cannot for love blood or money tell if James knows Barry is the Flash and is deliberately not inflicting happiness so as to play with him (”I’m sure we’ll be seeing a lot of each other now”), or if he’s completely missed that his new girlfriend’s coworker back from vacation is the guy upon who he wishes to inflict the greatest horror (”I’m sure we’ll be seeing a lot of each other now”, but said sincerely).
Hff. I do want next issue, but I confess I’m not exactly cheerfully looking forward to it.
Spoilers for Flash #67!
Well said, and these are excellent points!
It’s hard to say whether Barry should know who James is, because continuity these days is so uncertain. We know James has been in prison or laying low for years, and I don’t know how long Barry’s been back in current continuity. I presume he did still die (or maybe just disappeared) in a Crisis at some point because we’ve seen glimpses of it, but his memories of pre-Crisis are clearly spotty at best. Before Crisis Barry did recognize James in disguise sometimes, but he probably doesn’t remember it now if he barely has any recollection of his marriage to Iris. And continuity has changed a bit, as we saw last issue with James’ and Axel’s histories (ie, Axel debuted during James’ long stint in prison and after James’ stint with the FBI and faked death in Countdown). This is why I grumble about continuity being shuffled around so much over the past few years; nobody really knows what’s still intact or what the characters might know unless it’s explicitly stated.
I do hope Axel’s okay, and that James hasn’t harmed or mind-controlled him in any way :\
Just for fun, here’s Barry recognizing James in disguise many years ago. It probably wasn’t one of his better ones.
Toys Unlimited, Ltd.
It’s more the combination of face and name that had me thinking that something’s weird.
Barry thinking “wow, this tall blond guy seems oddly familiar” - okay, totally happens. Nagging familiarity works.
Barry thinking “wow, this tall blond guy who was just introduced to me as James Jeisse seems oddly familiar, but I’m not reacting to his name at all, despite the fact that I battled the Trickster repeatedly (as per last issue) and that guy isn’t shy about calling himself James Jesse” - that seems weird. I guess it’s not quite like Barry not reacting to Kristen’s boyfriend being named Leonard Snart, but it’s hinky as hell.
(My brain will now go gently play with the idea that Wolfe did something to ensure everybody forgot Jesse, that that’s why Wolfe was so shocked when Mick remembered Jesse in the issue where Mick got the Sage Force, and that that’s why Jesse wants revenge on Wolfe. Which, like most of my headcanons, is a very non-Flash-centric one and this likely won’t be true. But it’s fun to theorize.)
